Many Paths - The TRUTH about Underpainting
 

There must be many paths to so great a truth.

A lot of talk lately on various underpainting techinques, and some controversy over what is perceived as "right" vs. what is "wrong".

I don't know if you can really define very many ways of painting or underpainting as "wrong".

After all, with the advent of new materials, there are very few hard and fast rules regarding the specific techniques used to properly build a painting that still apply in all situations. As an example, we all hear a lot about Fat Over Lean. Well, if you use a drier in your paint that rule, for the most part, goes right out the window. We won't argue the merits or problems of driers here, ok?

So, while I underpaint rather thin, Karin Wells underpaints rather thickly. Does that mean that one of us is right and the other wrong? No, it does not. It means that we work differently to achieve our aim - a good painting. Karin's way works for her and my way works for me - you have to determine your own way of working too. Heck, some people don't do any underpainting at all!

I have done a lot of underpainting in verdaccio and grisaille. I really like that method, and recently I was introduced to a more direct method by Bill Whitaker which I like too. Bill's way works for him and I found that it worked well for me too - but there are many, many ways of accomplishing a good painting. I really believe that you can underpaint in full color, in monochromes of brown, gray, green, blue, or any color in the rainbow - as long as it helps you to produce a good painting.

The only "truth" about underpainting I know is this:

You underpaint to establish a baseline for your painting which gives you the benefit of removing a series of decisions you don't want to be making in the color stages of the painting.

I can post the progression of my underpainting technique that I learned from Bill Whitaker as another example of the very wide variety of ways of working. It is much harder to say - "here is the underpainting" as the painting sort of progresses.

BTW: This is a studio piece and is from a model, but is not a portrait commission. Also, it's a bit fantastical, so be forewarned. :)

Day 1

Day 2-3

A couple of days later:

And yet more days later - the final:

Thank you for this glimpse of the process, Michael. I was lucky to see three of Whitaker's paintings at the Prix de West show this summer, and I see his lessons here in this painting, in the beautifully subtle modeling of form, and the luminosity of her flesh. I see the soft round sable work also in your "Chase and Peyton".

What's next on your plate? I've been inspired by seeing your work evolve. It's great to see your passion and hard work carry you towards your goals.

Michael it looks like you're off to a good start.

I too use an under painting similar to Bill's in my more involved and complex paintings. I would assume you are referring to a thread in which I was one of the alleged perpetuators of the alleged controversy.

All I was ever trying to say was that there are many approaches to under painting and I guess some took offense in the way I specified what I meant to be options. My point was simply that mixing and matching various techniques can have disastrous effects.

My point was simply that one needs to be careful. Today I was at the National Academy of Design in New York and I saw a number of beautiful paintings by Dagnan-Bouveret. It's unfortunate that many were badly cracked, an unfortunate result of ill-advised layering of paint. He was a student of Gerome and should have known better.

I agree that there are many ways to approach the way a painting is made. That's one of the most fascinating aspects of oil painting.

Michael,

I am so glad to see you post this wonderful piece! In my view it ranks among the strongest on the site. Beautiful work.

Mari,

Thanks for your kind words. Right now, I am beginning a 40" x 60" commission of a lady in a green satin Edwardian gown at the foot of a grand stair. Well, at least that is what it will be. The dress is being made, I have just gotten the linen for the canvas, and we are still in search of the perfect staircase somewhere in Colorado. :) I am also doing a charcoal commission of a lady and her dog Drake, am in negotiations and planning with client for a possible commission of her three children (one of whom just recently passed away suddenly), and am beginning the color stage of the Graces painting that is on my website in verdaccio.

Marvin,

We all come from differing backgrounds and have differing experiences. I for one appreciate that you are very passionate about painting - something which I definately feel myself. You are also a wonderful painter and we all benefit from your experience and learning from your work.

Clearly there are many ways to create a painting and not all of them are equal, but we live and hopefully learn and better our art through reading, time at the easel, personal instruction from better painters than ourselves, and the benefit of forums of learning like this one.

I think it is important that we acknowledge our differing opinions about art and are free to discuss them. It can be difficult to do this without treading on some toes from time to time. I know I have done it countless times. I just trust that people understand that regardless of how pig headed I am being, I have good intent. :)

Michael
 

Seems to me the best and only kind of underpainting. I see few people that actually use transparent color glazes like fellows in the old days. Close color then closer! That grey/green underpainting always seems a aweful waste of time. At some point you have to get the color...I think what you've done is the right way.

Dear Michael,

This is a beautiful painting, and I enjoyed seeing how it progressed. It demonstrates your logic and reasoning for paint application better than words alone could have accomplished. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Linda

You people are all key components of what makes this a great forum. Thanks for your kind words. :)

Tim: We all eschew what we believe is true for us and has value for us. Thereby, even though I may not do it much anymore, I will always talk up the worth of underpainting in monochrome because it taught me so much about value and creating a 3d impression on a 2d surface. I think Bill's method is much faster and IMO, better because you start quite loose and refine as you go. However, it also requires that you really understand value and color in order to do it well. I don't believe I would have taken to it so easily if I did not have the experience and understanding gained from the many verdaccio and grisaille underpaintings I have done over the past 4 years.

Underpainting
 

Marvin, I have had the benefit of seeing Karin's beautiful luminous paintings in person as we are both members of the Copley Society.

Karin studied under two of the most accomplished figurative painters, Numael and Shirley Pulido. They, as well as Karin, are dedicated to the craftmanship of painting.

I was eagerly awaiting each post as it progressed. I came back from the holidays to find it truncated. I do not always agree with some of the professional's procedures but I at least like to hear them through.

I felt that Karin had put an enormous amount of time and effort in that thread and she should have been allowed to finish her explanation before she was challenged.

Sincerely

To those of us who want to be professionals:

I think the underpainting controversy has been propetuated by those of us who are struggling to learn and are eagerly seeking ways to improve. The truth is, that we should not try to immitate someone else's style. If you like Karen's approach, try it with a painting. If you like Michael's, Bill's, Marvin's, Peggy's, Chris', (and whoever I may have missed in this post my deepest apologies), then try them. Use what works for you and throw out the rest. Practice makes perfect and only by trying different methods will we find what works for each of us. Another great way to learn, which has been posted several times, is copying old master paintings. Practice, practice, practice, and never be satisfied. Maybe one day we'll will be the ones having discussions on which way is best! :D

Renee Price

Sharon,

I don't know who it was that severed the thread. I too would have liked it to play out. I too applaud Karin's great generosity in giving of herself and her time. I never intended to negate what she said (how many ways must I state this?) I was only trying to warn others it was A way not THE only way!!

Michael,

I'm a little curious. I'm sure you recall that we had previously butted heads on the under painting issue and since now you are shifting your position and trying this new approach, with excellent results I might add, I have a question. Have you also shifted your stance and are you also incorporating a new painting medium as well?

To whom it may concern,

I have over thirty years of experience as a working professional. I have received a multitude of awards in shows juried by many of today's finest artists (including the creme de la creme of portrait artists). My students alone have won tens of thousands of dollars in prize money. The Metropolitan Museum of Art is in the process of buying one of my paintings for their permanent collection. The Art Renewal Center informed me yesterday that I have been accepted as one of their ARC Approved Ateliers and I will soon be listed on their site as such. I could go on and on but I hope you get my point. If you think I know not what I talk about, it

Awards
 

Marvin, I am pleased you won all those awards, you must have deserved them. Karin has totted up quite a few herself, including an ASOPA Best of Show. However, this is not the mantle to display our awards and see who has the most. People should be allowed to judge the merit of the work, regardless of the artists accolades. If we allowed awards to be an important arbiter of quality, many brilliant artists would have been discarded and "Piss Christ" would be our inspiration.

I have personally have over 30 years as an artist, including being an illustrator. I have participated in the annual Society of Illustrator shows as well as done movies posters.

What I personally objected to was the fact that your objections muddied the water of Karin's thread, making it difficult for her to continue with any clarity. I generally like to hear people out before I challenge them.

I found it to be a valuable thread; I was interested and as a professional artist would have appreciated the opportunity to judge for myself.

Sincerely,

Okie, we are again getting a little off topic or at least into the sticker bushes again with this discussion.

It is inevitable that somewhere in the course of trying to communicate with each other that we will committ certain faux pas. I think this one has played itself out on our stage and we should move on with talking about underpainting. :)

Marvin: The Covino method which I learned had me using liquin or Galkyd in the underpainting and a medium based largely on Damar and Venice Turpentine for color. I used it, but did not like it much as it really dragged on the brush after about 30 minutes.

I have since changed to using Marogers medium (black oil and double mastic) for my primary medium. I swapped out my turpentine for oil of spike lavender. I understand the risks that Marogers can pose if it is not formulated correctly - I believe my stuff is formulated very well. I love how it handles. It stays open and wonderfully workable for most of a day and is touch dry the next day. Strokes are really smooth and it dries with a slight gloss which I find appealing.

Once more with feeling
 

Michael,

Sorry to go off course again but here I go. We

Lovely painting, Michael. Thank you for posting the step by step. There are many wonderful pearls in it.

Peggy

Marvin,

The quality of your work is definitely exemplary and more than worthy of the honors you have received. However, I hate to see this thread go "down the drain" as did the other one.

Language can be a difficult thing at times and all of us have times when our meaning or intent is misunderstood. Likely you did not intend the impression given in the thread that was closed, however more than one person felt you were denigrating Karin's methods and this is the cause of the tension occurring there and now here.

I suggest that we call a truce and get on to more rewarding posts. How's that for a deal?

Thank you Peggy! :)

And while I'm here, I'll take a minute out of my very busy day working on SOG main site and the Forum, to say, yes, beautiful piece, Michael.

Thank you also Cynthia. :)

Silence is golden
 

Sorry if I stepped on any toes. I am looking into becoming a Buddhist Monk and I am considering a Vow of Silence. My wife and kids couldn't be happier. (This was said in jest and I meant no offense to any real Buddhist).

Marvin: I don't think any of us is served by your (or anyone's) silence. I hope you will continue to participate because we all gain a lot from your being here.

I just think that sometimes we need to count to ten before we reply. :)

Marvin,

I second what Michael said...count to 10 or think how we can state our point without seeming to invalide the views of others. It can be a challenge for all of us at times.

And counting
 

1...2...3...4...5...

Safe way
 

Hi Marvin,

You mention on several posts ago about paintings cracking. I think you were stating the safe or proper way to layer oil paints so down the road in the future, there are less chances of cracking.

From what I learned from Mr. Angel is that the first layers of oil paint are more lean (less oil or medium) that the last or finishing layers. Sometimes even just adding a bit of turps into the paint. The fatty paint tends to "sink in" into the leaner paint underneath.

So, usually the underpainting and 1st painting are more lean paints.

Couldn't agree more
 

So the story goes!

The truth is out there.....
 

Greetings everyone,

First off - Congratulations, Mr. Mattelson on the Met's choice to purchase one of your paintings.

Marvin Mattelson's posts on this Forum have become some of my most "re-read" and studied notes in my most important "Forum notes" notebook. Some of the pages actually have coffee stains and oil paint smudges on them as a result of sitting beside my easel for easy reference.

I read the posts about the grisaille technique from Karin and Michael Georges respectively, as well as Marvin's posts afterward. I didn't find his post offensive at all - just passionate.

As an adult reader on this Forum, I enjoy having the choice to read all artists' opinions, abrasive or milk toast polite for that matter.

Artists throughout the ages have been known for being passionate, opinionated, vociferous (is that a word?) and yes, abrasive! I really do enjoy reading all opinions on this Forum and think many of the pros have so much to offer in stating their "candid" opinions without thinking so much and censoring themselves to death before posting.

I also understand that this is basically a Forum for the members of SOG who are practicing pros and the ones of us who are fledgelings read, learn and listen a lot. I can respect that.

Its never what you think it is.
 

Painting IS meditation. That's your first lesson.

Mediums
 

There is so much to worry about. Before we worry how many centuries our work will last we should first ask if anyone will care. The truth can be liberating for painters. Create!

Fair enough Mr. M. And as promised, here is your first koan ...

"How does my true nature express itself while glazing?" :D

Rev. Thich Minh Thong

One hand not clapping
 

I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole.

Beautiful paintiing
 

Michael, that is truly a lovely painting, very imaginative too.

I went back to your postings and I couldn't find an explanation of the actual painting process. Are there glazes? Do you use a Maroger, galkyd ,liguin or neomeglip medium or is it all opaque?

Sincerely,

Sharon: Thanks for your lovely compliment. It is all opaque paint, and I painted it with Marogers and a touch of oil of spike lavender here and there.

Bill's method really involves beginning very loose and free with broad strokes patched in. He goes from the general to the very specific, refining a passage each time he goes into it. This allows him to selectively leave certain areas of the painting very loose and painterly while making his figure or other areas very tight, or somewhere inbetween.

My example, while it captures the essence of what I learned, does not demonstrate the technique as well as one of his works does since I still was pretty tight even in my first layers.

The one thing you do notice when looking at his progression pictures however, is that he is a master draughtsman and even in the very early stages, everything is exactly where it should be.

Hi Sharon and Mike,

What is a Maroger? Also wondering about oil of spike lavender?

P.S. Awesome painting, Micheal! W.W. protog

Joseph,

Use the "search messages" button at the top of any page; there is quite a bit of information already on the Forum with regard to your question.

Josef:

Maroger medium is something originated by a guy named Jaques Maroger, a painter and technical director of the Louvre laboratory from 1930 to 1939. He developed a number of theories and painting mediums based on his research. The most famous of these mediums involved boiling lead litharge in linseed oil to create an enhanced drying oil. It has become known over the years as black oil because the litharge and cooking turns the oil quite dark. His theory was that many of the master painters of old used these mediums and there is some evidence to support his claims.

Most of the medium recipies he had mixed the black oil with a varnish and possibly a resin. The one I use is a professional developed formula that mixes the oil with double mastic varnish. It is available at Studio Products.

This is one of those "don't try this at home kiddies" things however, because if the medium is not formulated correctly, you can end up with bad results - like overdarkening of your painting over time. Some artists know how to make it and do it correctly - Bill Whitaker is one. However, there are several commercial brands out there that are very stable and you don't have to worry about catching your hair or your house on fire, so we buy those instead. :)

Chris,

Sorry about this. I will search the subject next time before asking.;)

Michael,

Thanks for the information. I have known it as black oil.:)