Maroger
 

I recently got an email from Richard Monro, one of our members here and wanted to share it and discuss the medium with those of you that use it. I've just recently tried it on a few paintings and love the way it makes the paint handle, but I admit to not being as up on the safety of materials as I should be. Richard read this and wanted to give me his warning.

So - for those in the know - let's discuss this...
I have Richards permission to post his email:

Kim,

I'm inclined to go with what history teaches as we poor humans have an
unhappy tendency to not be able to stick around long enough to see
whether we are right or wrong in some of the painting decisions we make.

Ralph Mayer has written in his book The Painter's Craft: "History
teaches us that the wisest course is to adhere to the simple oil-paint
technique as much as possible, to use oleoresinous painting mediums with
restraint and to avoid complex jelly mediums" like megilp or Maroger's
medium.

And here are comments by Michael Skalka, Conservation Administrator
National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC

"Any medium mixed with a resin like damar makes it easily soluble. When
paintings in our collection have old, yellowed, damar varnish on them
and it needs to be removed, tests are conducted to see if the paint
below is sensitive to the solvent used. If the paint contains damar and
the surface is varnished with damar, conservators cannot remove all of
the varnish without removing some, if not all, of the original paint. In
those cases, the varnish cannot be fully cleaned and a layer of old
yellow varnish must remain.

I am pleased to see that painters test materials. It would be great if
only turpentine or mineral spirits removed yellowed damar.
Unfortunately, damar cross-links over time and requires stronger and
stronger solvents to remove them the longer they remain on a painting.
Again, the same solvents that will get damar to come off also attacks
paints that contain damar.

Yellowing and embrittlement are also a concern of conservators. Over
time paint lends itself to cracking as it oxidizes and ages. Damar
within a paint just tends to add to the fragility of the paint film.

You are right that Alkyds are fairy young by painting standards.
Materials scientists at the Smithsonian have done some fairly aggressive
testing with new and aged alkyd samples. They dry quickly, get quite
rigid, but then stabilize and do not grow more brittle over time. Oil
paint does. It is slow to become brittle but just keeps on getting more
brittle over time. So far, they seem to indicate that they are stable
over time. Many painters do have issues with alkyd mediums. I believe
that some formulations could be improved to decrease the browning that
occurs over time.

Our scientists are quite convinced that the physics of materials do not
get suspended because painters wish it so. The incorporation of
questionable materials like damar into paint retains its performance
characteristics. Damar continues to yellow, becomes brittle (more so
than oil paint) and becomes a nightmare to clean.

Our conservators know this to be the case as well through the experience
of caring for hundreds upon hundreds of paintings during their careers.
They know that Maroger and other mediums do not betray their bad
characteristics for a long time. (60 years is not enough time - oil
paint isn't even fully dry in 60 -80 years on a typical thickly painted
painting) Maroger (1884-1962) did not influence artists until the early
20th century so 19th century works are not affected by his practices.
However, recently, two conservators in a museum in New England examined
and studied the work of John Stuart Curry who was an avid fan of
Maroger. Many of his works have suffered through the use of the medium.
Granted, Curry was a zealot who followed Maroger's early and late
formulations. Curry's work that employed an early Maroger formula that
involved leaded oil, resin and in early versions incorporated water
based additives. These have suffered the most.

In summary, I caution painters about the use of resin in their painting
mediums because our conservators always speak of the difficulties in
cleaning and damage that is within the paint surface on works of art
that have been analyzed and found to contain damar. I believe that
getting paint to stay on canvas for a long time is no easy task. I
define a long time as 200 or more years. Lots of artists are not
concerned about longevity. For those who are, I just caution that many
of these mediums can, over a long period of time, be detrimental to the
painting. We have seen the bad practices of artists from the 18th
century, like Reynolds, presented in too many conservation research
papers to ignore the fact that experimenting with mediums and methods
can lead to disaster."


Sorry about the rant. The above is all a bit winded, but I also hope it
is helpful. These are my parting words on the subject. Each professional
must walk their own path and let history be the judge as to how well we
did. As always I remain an an admirer of your beautiful art.


Richard J. Monro
[email protected]

OK - so no takers on this discussion?

Just a note for anyone who is reading with interest -

I went to the Studio Products website and asked a couple questions. One fella says to use no more than 10% of this in each pile of paint. Bill Whitaker had said he used 25%. I wasn't getting the even sheen I was looking for so I started using more. The sheen issue is better, but the paint dried on my palette so quickly that I had to throw a bunch out. That always hurts!

Kim,

Michael Skalka is not in the business of selling products, whereas at Studio Products, they are. I would recommend paying serious heed to what Skalka says here, unless you don't care whether your paintings will change for the worse in the years to come.

Yes, it does get confusing when we hear about artists whose work we admire singing the praises of Maroger mediums. However, Rembrandt demonstrated very compellingly how well it is possible to paint without adding any resinous concoctions to oil paint. His medium was linseed oil, occasionally walnut oil. From a standpoint of archival quality, you couldn't do much worse than to add Maroger mediums to your paint. I have no doubt that you can paint every bit as well without it as with it. Do your collectors and your artistic legacy a favor by leaving such problematic substances out of your paints. You paint too well to sabotage your own works.

Virgil Elliott

I know that David Leffel uses it and I'm sure Bill Whitaker knows a lot about it, maybe he could tell us more about this medium.

Thank you Virgil for responding.

All this experimentation with mediums and supports is due to certain issues. I'd gladly go back to just paint and linseed if I could solve them...

I found I loved a flat smooth surface when I tried ABS. I have stopped using that because of the all the issues and advice I have read, (except a few small pieces I will finish). I found gesso panels which seemed to fit this OK and am ordering them through realgesso.com. But - these present their own problems. The initial sucking up of paint is not a big issue - but the glare on the surface is. In certain situations it is almost impossible to see the painting. Then there is the uneven surface from paints sinking in. I can fix the uneveness with retouch - but then glare is still an issue. If I could let my paintings sit for 6 months I could do a matte varnish, but I cant always do that. And I hear about issues with retouch as well.

Here is what I want - it is not as simple as it sounds....

I want something to put on my panel paintings as soon as they are dry to the touch that evens them out without too much glare. A nice even sheen from a product that has no issues with longevity.

Is this too much to ask, I beg you!? ;)

Kim,
I have great respect for Daniel Greene's technical knowlege and checked up on my notes from my study with him. He uses a mixture of 2 parts turpentine and 1 part stand oil (artist grade) as a medium. It does accelerate drying somewhat but should give you some of the properties you are looking for.

Me too! I paint on a non absorbent oil primed linen but I still get sunken in areas, of course. I use linseed to "oil out" dull areas, but then the finished painting is too shiny for my liking.

Kim,

Several things cause uneven gloss. One of them is thinning paints with solvent, which produces a matte effect, but the matte effect is uneven because some passages will have less solvent, and some more. Mediums with polymerized oils like stand oil or sun-thickened linseed oil will increase gloss, but usually unevenly, again, because there will be more of it in some passages than in others. Same with resin mediums.

I've found just using linseed oil as my medium, with no solvent and no resin of any kind, produces the most even degree of gloss, which is less glossy than what I was getting with stand oil mediums or resin-oil mediums. It's important not to add too much. Too much of any medium is not a good idea.

If your ground is very absorbent, it's best to add some linseed oil to the paints, as some of the binding oil will be drawn out by the absorbancy of the ground, which could leave the paint underbound unless there is a bit of extra oil in it to compensate.

Virgil Elliott

Thanks again all.

When I was less experienced, this was so simple. I have a couple paintings that are 17 years old or so. I used oil paint and taught myself without doing even the most basic of research. When the paint was too thick, I thinned it with turpentine only. The paintings, although horrible in skill, still look fine. The richness of the oil is missing though because they are very matte from the turpentine. I never varnished them either.

The more I learn, the more confused I am.

This problem with matte and glossy areas has much to do with how the ground is absorbing the oil from the applied paint layer.

When we use a very absorbing ground, as gesso, and start painting with more or less diluted paints, the oil will be absorbed in the gesso .

When the paint is applied uneven on the surface ( as it always is), it will dry with uneven speed. Thick paint will take the longest time to dry.


If we paint too soon on this uneven dry surface there will typically be three different surfaces :
1. The uncovered gesso with full absorbency
2. Parts that are painted with thin and now dry paint that will not be absorbent.
3. Parts that are painted with thick paint that are not yet dry. That is where the problems will show up because the ground is still absorbent.

When we paint on a not yet dry thick layer of paint, with another layer, the top layer will normally dry first, because it need oxygen to dry. The new layer prevent the bottom layer to dry so that it will be absorbent for a long time and drink the oil from the top layer, that becomes matte.

Good craftsmanship is to either paint wet into wet or wet upon dry. And when having a wery absorbent ground, priming it to be moderately absorbent.


Sargent advised to always paint wet into wet using no or little extra medium. I have only seen one of his paintings that suffer from cracks and gliding out of the top layer. That is his late self portrait.

Allan

I get this sinking in of upper dark layers even when the layer I'm painting on is dry to the touch, after a week or so of drying. Hmmm.....

Hmm..... My post is based on traditional knowledge from the house painters craft that I have been taught and included theoretical teaching on school.

When a painted surface looks matte it is because the oil content is low compared to the pigments. This is seen when the paint is lean or the oil has disappeared down into the ground or when the paint has been added mineral spirit that had evaporated.

Imagine a shallow water with stones under the water. The stones will show their real colors when wet. But on low tide the stones get dry and look different.

Dark pigments that are matte will get relative lighter than light pigments. Also some earth colors need more oil to stay covered.

I was told that linseed oil will dry over a longer period. First within a couple of days and then it will bleed (get soft) and harden even more. Later it will bleed again. This process takes place in longer and longer intervals and progress over years. Incredible but true.

The linseed oil will obtain water from moist in the air or the wood, it is painted on, and let it through.

Linseed oil has the smallest molecules of all medias and will swell when drying. That is what makes it superior as a painting media because it secures a solid adherence.

That might also be the reason why it is so forgiving to us painters and all our different practices.

Allan

I know that the dull areas are because the oil is being absorbed by the lower layers. When it happens I "oil out" the top layers with more linseed oil. What I'm wondering is if it would happen less if I waited a couple of weeks or longer between layers.

Kim,

If seventeen years seems like a long time to you, enjoy your youth while it lasts. To me, seventeen years ago seems like yesterday.

Many of the problems that result from poor choices of materials and/or techniques do not show up in oil paintings for 80-200 years. Short-term, one can get by with just about anything.

Virgil Elliott

Gamvar (Gamblin product) is a synthetic resin varnish (contains no damar or mastic) which is advertised as being suitable for a retouch varnish as well. I vote for going with this. If this varnish is ever removed by a restorer, he will use chemicals which should not disturb the chemical formulation of any underlying paint containing traces of organic resins.

The Studio Products formulation of Maroger contains mastic which has different properites from damar, or so I understand.

As you know, Kim, artists argue bitterly about all this stuff, including the dangers of lead, etc .. I personally keep an open mind about these issues, have no ax to grind, and am prepared to change my mind if anybody comes up with information to sway me.

Incidentally, I own a couple of old paintings (18th and 19th century) and I'm willing to bet that most of their cracking trouble comes from being on linen which expands and contracts drastically as well has being in danger of mold and puncture incidents. Therefore, I vote for either a good mounted linen panel or one of Max's gessopanels in terms of longevity, (and sheer pleasure of touching); just don't drop them. Of course, ABS will probably last longer than anything else but it's hard to find anybody who will stick his/her neck out and say so.

Yes Linda - this subject has to be one the most argued about among artists. It's all very confusing. There are so many qualified to speak on these subjects. I am not one of them for sure!

If you scroll down here there is a similiar thread listed that was started by Karin Wells a few years ago which has you, Virgil, on this same subject duking it out with that very person who makes the marogers I've recently tried. One thing I will say for certainty - when I went to that forum to ask my questions I was not treated in any way a customer should be treated. I never really got my questions answered even though I kept repeating them. I resorted to an email so I could avoid all the attitudes, but never received an answer.

Dear Kim,

Virgil knows a great deal about paints and art materials and he

Since I

And despite all this - aren't we the luckiest people in the world to be doing what we love for a living?

Don't be grumpy Bill - I can't even imagine how many thousands of artists and art students there are who want to be just like you when we grow up.

And just to let you know, I personally would dig through a whole dump to find one of your sketches if someone were ever foolish enough to throw one out. :o

Thank you for chiming in Bill.