After Anthony Ryder
 

Here is my first pencil portrait drawing, I wasn't sure where to put it but I feel brave enough to post it.

I call him Dreadlock Man but it is after Pete Jackson by Anthony Ryder.

Hi Ngaire!
I see tremendous improvement in your work, tones and all. It'll really make a lot of difference in your future works, by paying more attention to accuracy in draughtsmanship in your practice. Keep up the fabulous work! I'm looking forward to it! :thumbsup:

Thanks Marcus for your support and encouragement.

That is neat how you did the lines, is that done in photoshop? Can it be done in other programs, I am still learning about graphics on computers and can only change image size so far.

I knew my nose/forehead was out but I was just using my eyes with no measuring at all, as I thought it is important not to rely on artifical help. Maybe there is a lesson here, don't rely on your eyes to tell you where you have gone wrong, use a set square or generated lines like you have done.

Marcus, could you pm me to explain how you do the lines, I can see great potential in using this effect.

Ngaire, I just wanted to comment on what you said about measuring. I'm a full time student in an atelier and we measure all the time! We are taught to measure, that's what helps train your eye to catch mistakes. So don't feel like measuring is artificial, it's not. Keep up the good work.
Debra

Hi Ngaire! You're most welcome!
Yes it is done with photoshop, and i believe the Windows built-in software can do this line-work too! And it's quite easy to draw...just load up the image in photoshop, and find the Line tool.
Adjust the thickness of the line you wish to use, and voila!

Yes, i fully agree with Debra. It's important for any artist to develop measuring skills - by hand - and not by using additional measuring devices. It is fundamental to develop your hand-eye coordination through this method. Be inspired by great artists from the times before they invented the camera obscura - names like Caravaggio, and Leonardo Da Vinci - and you'll find this is an invaluable asset as an artist. ;)

Measuring
 

Ngaire,

I'm studying with Anthony Ryder right now, and we're practicing envelopes and block-ins from the figure. He does measure to check larger tilts and lengths (with a pencil, skinny paintbrush handle, or skewer), though not constantly; most of his measuring is done by eye. We want to develop the abililty to judge and check accurately by eye alone**, but like Debra said, our eye needs to be trained. So it's useful to use a tool to check our accuracy, at least occasionally.

Anna

**By this I mean not simply looking at the subject, but many different ways of looking, checking and cross-checking. For example: scanning with your eye to feel the distance and tilt between points, seeing the larger shapes, looking for the relationships between shapes, glancing back and forth between the subject and your drawing constantly to compare, etc.

Thanks Debra, Marcus and Anna for your support and comments.

There seems to be a contentious issue with measuring constantly or not or eye with the aid of measuring minimally. I just used my eye with this one and wanted to see if my eye had progressed. Maybe I am asking too much of myself at such an early stage on my self training program.

Anna, I only have one book of Anthony Ryder and thoroughly enjoyed it, you are so lucky to have an opportunity to study with him. His blending is incredible. Any other hints you would like to share?????

Hi Ngaire,
I think your drawing is getting better and better.
There some topics in the forum about measuring which you should examine, the secret is to practice, practice, practice...

Hi Ngaire!
Aside from the drawing/measuring considerations. . . you might want to check your dark values. Especially in the more detailed darks, like where his ponytail gathers towards the nape of his neck, I find the original has the detail rendered within a tighter, darker range than in your version. It's easy to get involved in the details and lose sight of that overall dark effect.

Hi Ngaire,
I agree, your drawing skills are developing nicely. Don't you love Anthony Ryder's book? I attended one of his drawing workshops and learned so much about measuring, and how the light falls on the figure, and about washing of graphite. I also came way convinced of how important the paper is which you draw on . Tony uses Canson MiTientes (sp?). It has the perfect texture for pencil.

Everyone is giving you good advice about measuring. Let me add my two cents worth. It does take allot of drawing to develop your eye. Do not hesitate to use measuring tools. Until my eye developed well enough and I really learned general relationships, I copied drawings from books to identical size. I used rulers to measure all kinds of distances in every direction. To check my accuracy I did not hesitate to lay tracing paper over the original drawing, trace edges and then lay the tracing paper over my drawing to see where I was off. I learned that I made the same judment errors over and over (i.e., I always "saw" the nose longer than it is, for example). When you are just practicing, this is such a good learning tool. Do not worry that you are cheating (see other posts regarding this subject - they are good).

Keep drawing, every day, if possible. You are really improving and will continue to get better and better!! Besides, isn't it fun?!!

Good luck -
Patty

Ngaire,

I'd love to share tips, although my mind is a blank right now in spite of (or perhaps because of) drawing all day.

Expanding on Terri's comment: You want to remember that the head is large unified rounded form, lit from a certain direction. Do you see how in Tony's drawing the lights get progressively darker as the light has to travel farther or hits at a less direct angle? Your little forms on his face are well-rendered, but keep in mind the idea of shading the head as a whole as it turns away from the light. For instance, the front part of his cheek looks a bit dark in your drawing, and parts of the jaw look a bit light. Also, remember that although his ear catches the light in many places, it is an integral part of the head, and joins at a place that is turning away from the light. It's tempting to make the ear too light and too detached.

Regarding the drawing, I don't know if you were following his particular method, but I'm just curious how you approached the drawing initially? In his book he shows this drawing in progress only after he's finalized the contour. Did you begin by blocking in the big shapes or did you start drawing the contour right away?

Keep up the good work!

Anna

P.S.
If you like Tony's book you might also check out the books his teacher, Ted Seth Jacobs wrote: Drawing With an Open Mind, and, if you can find it, Light for the Artist.

Ngaire,

This was an ambitious undertaking, in which you went after some pretty sophisticated techniques. As it is, you can probably look at your drawing and think,

Wow, what wonderful support I have received from you all.

Steven, You explain things so well. When are you going to put out a book titled 'Mistakes are an artist's best tool' or something similar. A how to read a painting and learn book, sounds good to me. I will have to reread your comments again to take them in better. I understand the 'snowball' effect as one wrong shape lends itself to more misjudged shapes the longer you let it go without correcting. I am not so sure about how you measured it though with the two lines bit. I got the ear bit. The hair was my artistic licence allowed to roam.

Anna, yes I see it but when I do it, it is two different things, I just figured close enough is good enough for this level of skill. I was a bit naughty. I just saw the drawing and just eyeballed it the best I could with what I have to work with at the moment. I got the book for my birthday so I will have to save up for the others you mentioned.

Patricia, Yes I can't believe I was lucky enough to get it. As soon as I got I wasn't seen for hours later. My head never came out of it until I needed food. Wow the blending in it. Yes the paper would make a difference. I bet you enjoyed his workshop.

Terri, you picked my artistic licence bit, I thought I could get away with it. Oops, I'm sprung. I will repeat 100 times, I am a bad girl for not observing shapes as they are, not as I would like them to be.

Claudemir, I am glad you noticed. I am practicing as much as I can.

And I'm not quite sure, either, where I lost you.

If you're referring to the two vertical lines I "drew" in the image, above, showing your drawing of the nose, those are really just to show the relationship between the two points mentioned, at the top of the nose and bottom contour of the fleshy wing of the nose. There are two lines in your drawing, to indicate the misjudged "horizontal distance" between those two points. In Ryder's version, there is no "horizontal distance," as the two points are more or less directly above and below each other, respectively.

Another "angle" -- Two lines on the form might be, for example, the back and front edges of the neck. If you hold up your pencil and sight along the back edge, say, the pencil will have a slope toward your left as it rises. If you carefully move that pencil over to the front edge, you'll find out if the slopes of the two edges "match" (that is, that they're parallel) or if they diverge, and if so, whether they're getting closer to each other toward the upper part of the drawing or the lower part. That same relationship should be preserved in your drawing.

Lastly -- If you're looking at only one "line" in the drawing -- say, the slope of the back contour of the hair, then compare it with a vertical (or if appropriate, a horizontal) line in an imaginary grid placed over both the resource drawing and your own drawing surface. (If you have trouble accurately "imagining" a vertical, just hold the tip of the pencil at arm's length and let gravity impose a vertical orientation. Or tie a small weight to a length of thread and hold that "plumb line" out in front of you, comparing the vertical thread to the angles of whatever edges you're working on in the drawing.)

Perhaps I touched there on whatever it was that was confusing you, or perhaps I've just been "blendy and fiddly." If something's still not clear, let me know. Text is a difficult way to try to teach visual techniques.

I did not hesitate to tell Tony Ryder when I attended his workshop that the first thing I did was read through the book, then I proceeded to take it apart literally removing all the pages and placing it in a binder. This way I could remove a drawing lay it next to my drawing paper affixed to my drawing board and begin copying.

Whenever I am at a loss for something to work on (which is seldom these days, thank God) I pull Tony's book back out and often before I begin a portrait (just this past weekend in fact) I take out Tony's book and reread it. Nuggets of wisdom abound on every page. After three years since studying with him, he still is teaching me!

Steven's advice is invaluable, follow every piece of advice he gives you, he knows what he's talking about! When I was just starting out with drawing he taught me more than any other person. Go back and study his other posts over the years - very valuable exercise.

I am excited for you, Ngaire. I love watching to grow. I can see that you've "got it" and that you will be successful in your artistic endeavors ;)

Have Fun!!!

A picture is worth a thousand words.
 

Ngaire hello, Your drawing is quite good and easily adjusted. So, please do not despair for you are almost there that is perfection is the next step.

Have you heard of the Bargue drawings? Well, I hope this will help out on your next project. Whether you wish to do a comparative or sight size method this will work. There is a number of ways to start a drawing this is just one but if you wish to train your eye to see correctly than this will help. This is the method that most The art academies throughout the 19th century teach this method. :thumbsup:

In telling you to just keep at it, Ngaire, an old Chinese parable came to mind. The details change with the source, but the fundamental teaching remains and is, I think, a core instruction.

The Wikipedia version is thus:

Dear Steven, Patricia, Michele thanks heaps for your support and invaluable advice.

Steven, I think I get it now. I feel I need to do a few more life studies to compensate for this weakness. I have painted a foam ball, a cube and a toilet roll white to study at night with one light source to help with the values bit. Looks like I will just have to start measuring more often. I love that parable, I will print it out and put it on my wall. It is obvious my length and angle was out with the nose and I should have used a unit measure to check it against and a vertical measure. Oh well, that what happens when one eyeballs without a seatbelt.

Patricia, it is great to hear from you. What I am finding lately is that the more knowledge I gain, the more clearer things become and advice or books that I have read seem to make much more sense and have to go back and reread things, is this what happens to you. There is so much to know and practice and I suppose it all fits like a jigsaw eventually. I am not sure about the 'got it' bit but I hope it finds me sooner than later and it stays with me.

Mischa, thanks for the Bargue drawing. I am studying from the book and am on Plate 3 at present and haven't done that one yet. I seem to get a bit bored with my slow progress with it, so I decided to do the dreadlock man for a bit of difference as I just received the book recently. I have to spend more time developing my eye as it is failing me at present and no doubt his exercises will definitely help and I have to get into the habit of measure, measure, measure.

No freeeyeballing again, promise. Gee it felt good though.

Ngere Smile a While!

Please do not stop eyeballing but do not forget to check by measuring. The goal is to train your eye.

I too have the book my favorite study tool. While at the academy I learned a lot about what to do with the Bargue drawings. For example plates 1,1 - 1,4 are a challenge for them self. The plates 1,5 - 12, 1,41,42, 49 are the ones to start with for the study of construct, simple tones or values and how they relate to each other. Make the best copy that you can of the original. Paste it on a board and beside it paste the paper you wish to draw on (Light value Canson is good). Draw a plum line on both and then measure and establish the height of the original. To train properly use the sight size method. This is just the proper setup for drawing rather than casts. As you know the instructions are in back of the book. I hope this helps.

One more thing do not neglect thumb nail sketching. Good source for instruction is the Andrew Loomis book Fun With a Pencil and have fun.

Mischa, thanks for your support. Are you saying that 1.1-1.4 are challenges in line making. 1.5-1.12 (construct). Plates 1.41, 1.42 and 1.49 are exercises for simple tone and value? Could you explain further how you used Bargue? I am just starting with 1.1 and now up to 1.3 and I was just going to keep doing them one at a time. Do you have a better suggestion on how to do all of them?

Oops sorry Mischa, I spelt your name wrong in my second last reply.

Plates 1,1 - 1,4 are a challenge for them self. They are advanced exercises.

The plates 1,5 - 12, and 1,41,42, 49 are the ones to start with for the study of construct, simple tones or values and how they relate to each other. Pick one amongst these and reproduce it to perfection. Perfect will force you to train your eye. Seek a critique after each step. Do your best not to mix the steps this is quite important.

Step one line drawing. Step two shadow shapes. Step three halftones. Step four will be perfecting all.

Remember, if you are serious about what you are doing and I believe you are than to much at once is counterproductive. So, one step at a time and you will be where you should be faster. We believe in you.

Hi Ngaire,
This is absolutely right!
You'll have a faster progress if you follow Mischa's advice.

Thanks Mischa, You have made Bargue a little clearer for me. To perfection you want, to perfection I will go (don't know how long it will take but I will do my best).

Being atelier trained do you still have your creativity intact in your work or has this type of training upset the balance, I ask because I read that sometimes atelier training (to perfection) stiffens an artist up and they lose their 'dither' (as per Harold Speed explanation)or 'freedom of individual interpretation' so to speak?

Hi Claudemir, any sleepless nights yet? Bet I can't wipe the smile off your face in a hurry!!! Thanks for your support.

Ngaire, I admire your drive and dedication. You are showing us all that a determined artist can teach themselves to draw in any corner of the world, remote from any official schools or teachers.

You now have all the resources you could possibly need: the Bargue drawings, Tony Ryder's book .... and a pencil.

I wholeheartedly agree with Mischa and Steven's advice not to attempt too much too fast. If I were in your situation, I would go through the Ryder book step by step, page by page. Master the envelope idea. Make dozens of very accurate envelope drawings, THEN move on to blocking in. Only when you get great at one step should you move on to the next.

You asked: I think the 20th century adulation of "freedom of individual interpretation" at the total disregard for artistic training has landed the art world in the mess it's currently in. Train yourself to see and draw as well as you possibly can. You will always be "you" inside and nothing could possibly make you lose your individuality or creativity if you don't want it to. The difference, after you thoroughly train yourself, is that you will then be able to precisely communicate any idea you so desire, and knock our socks off with the power of it!

Ngaire please excuse my many words,

I totally agree with Michele as per your question in regard to creativity. Atelier training has given me the basics that I needed and has not stiffened my creativity one bit. My freedom to express my self was stiffened by lack of proper training. Even though my work earned recognition before attending the academy I was not happy with quality and speed of execution.

Ngaire a person can express self in any way they chose but will others understand.

I am still amazed by Tony Ryder's work even though I bought his Figure Drawing book before attending the academy. Now after proper training I better understand and appreciate Tony's work.

In my humble opinion one of the best books for speed learning is The Human Figure by J. H. Vanderpoel and for fast on the spot sketching I recomend Fun With a Pencil by Andrew Loomis. What ever book they All seem self explanatory but are they really?


It is good to have all these books no question but the question is what it is and at what level a individual wishes to learn at.

A excellent foundation on solid ground, proper training, is the key. Build the house any way you like but when the winds come will your house stand.

We are here for you.

I agree. Atelier training can't give you creativity (though it can open your eyes), and it can't take it away.

The brochure for the classical realism studio where I received instruction stated very explicity -- "The work is not creative, and it is not intended to be." The goal was to be able to accurately depict the subject, whatever the subject.

In a sense, we were acquiring the "vocabulary" of art, but we remained responsible for telling our own story.

The only risk to creativity, if at all, is that one's discipleship and obeisance to the training become rigid and unmindful. If your "creative" self wants to use an unorthodox composition, or adjoin non-complementary colors, or put terry tea towels and screwdrivers into a classical fruit-and-flowers scene, and you stifle that impulse merely on the basis that "That's not the way it must be done, the way it's always been done," there might be a sense in which your new skills could be seen to be holding you back, creatively. I have seen it happen, so I'm not going to say it cannot, but I think it's rare that a well-trained artist would feel constrained to use his or her skills in such service. The natural instinct seems to be otherwise. It is music theory that allows one to improvise, not the absence of it.

By the way, the fact that most examples of atelier work are characterized by a very tight finish has to do largely with the nature of the training. One would be expected not to practice piano scales with only 70 per cent accuracy. There is however, in classical realism, a strong impressionist "school," which demands no less skill in seeing your subject than does the highly finished work we're more apt to associate with the term "classical realism."

Lastly, as for measuring, it's just a tool. The coffee table built by the master woodworker is not the measuring tape or T-square he used. Some studios train you in the use of plumb lines and calipers to assist the development of your eye, and others do not permit them, insisting that they simply impede the progress and that the sooner you internalize the tools, the better. One system isn't "right," and the other "wrong." In the teaching studio, the instructor's ability to stand in the same place the student was standing and use the same measuring device (I'm thinking of a length of thread, as in the sight-size demo (here) I put together earlier) to double-check the student's work was an efficient means of "proving" to the untrained student (often resistant to instruction -- especially if a young male!) where he or she had gone wrong.

I'll bet Tony Ryder is still able to whip out some pretty fantastic quick sketches, "despite" his skill.

Dear Michele, Mischa and Steven

Thanks for your great advice, clarity and support. My admiration to you all here, for taking the time to share your knowledge so willingly.

I don't think I have realised the actual value of the books just yet. The excitement is racing in me when I can see my attempts progress from drawing to drawing. What a wonderful pleasure it is to learn about classical realism, even with the frustrations and isolation. I am so very thankful for SOG.

Yes, I do feel that a lack of skills can stiffen up an artist or hold them back creatively. Not having the skills to do what my mind and heart wants is the main reason I started my classical training. Sometimes, I do find it hard not being able to bounce questions off the cuff to a teacher, like in atelier training or apprentice. I suppose that is where an apprectice gets an advantage to ask the master, or atelier training comes in handy.

I will take all advice very seriously and in my stride. Thanks heaps.

(Synchronicity or what! I was just listening to 'I believe in you' on the CD by Il Divo as I wrote this. Hmmmm!!!!)