Cadmium free and loving it.

[Allan Rahbek]

Hi Ken.

I am not Marvin, but here is my perception of the theme.

When painting portraits you work with very limited colors in the flesh tones. Instead of mixing Cadmium Yellow, Cadmium Red, Viridian and White, you simply use Venetian Red and Flake White. It is less hazardous, and therefore easier.

The Cadmiums are so strong that you will never need a color that strong. The earth colors are closer to what you actually need. That

[Tom Edgerton]

Also, this for Long John Brandon--

Maybe I could paint with a parrot on my shoulder, but doesn't the eye patch kill your ability to discern perspective?

Just wondering--TE

[Richard Budig]

I use both Tom and Marvin's method.

I premix two or three neutrals using a string of five values using black and white; raw umber and white, and a curious greenish/yellowish gray from raw sienna, black and white. I do this most of the time.

However, as Tom points out, eventually, my palette is full of the most curious puddles of gray and I often fetch some neutral color from one of these.

Sometimes, the random little piles of neutral colors seem to work best because they are already composed of colors I've applied to the portrait somewhere, and it seems to give a sort of unity to the work.

Both the "Tom" and "Marvin" method work well for me.

By the way, Marvin, this whole discussion has led me to use less and less cadmiums, and now, my palette much quieter, and I seem to be doing better. Thanks for kicking me off the cadmium pile.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Peter.

Yes both are toxic. Flake white contains lead which can only be harmful if ingested or inhaled as dust. Wash hands before eating and don't sand the painting.

Turpentine can be absorbed through the skin and the fumes are very noxious.

Intelligent use of materials is the key.

Sharon,

I'm baaaaaaack!!! The workshop was great. So many talented people.

Richard,

The majority of the greatest paintings ever created used no cadmiums. I detect a theme here. Using cadmiums in flesh is like learning to parallel park in a Boeing 747.

Joan,

I have created a specific arrangement of colors on my palette based on Paxton's colors. This includes a string of neutral grays which I premix and tube.

Ken,

My neutral grays are based on 9 equal steps between the extremes of black and white paint. Other brands that manufacture neutral grays use theoretical black and white points. The values are threrfore skewed.

[Garth Herrick]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

Joan,

I have created a specific arrangement of colors on my palette based on Paxton's colors. This includes a string of neutral grays which I premix and tube.

Ken,

My neutral grays are based on 9 equal steps between the extremes of black and white paint. Other brands that manufacture neutral grays use theoretical black and white points. The values are threrfore skewed.

Marvin,

I went to the extreme last year and premixed and tubed 50, yes I said 50 equal steps of neutral gray! This set me back several hundred dollars in materials expenses. I used Old Holland Ivory Black and Titanium White, because Old Holland happens to make a very pure Titanium White that isn't cut with Zinc or anything else. These particular black and whites are of roughly equal tinting strength, which made the formulations simpler. I gave these grays graded appellations of 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., to 250. 0 is pure black and 255 is pure white, which makes a total of 52 equal steps. You may notice that these numbers relate to the standard RGB Grayscale in Photoshop. That was my idea, to directly be able to translate any given grayscale value in Photoshop into paint values on the canvas. This works very reliably, but in practice it is just about as good to eyeball in the approximate values.

Regards,

Garth

[Allan Rahbek]

That was my idea, to directly be able to translate any given grayscale value in Photoshop

Garth

Garth, how do you measure on the photo reference? Do you use the Photoshop?

This should be a separate topic about " How to measure values"

Allan

[Richard Budig]

I'm a newbie to Photoshop, myself. But Photoshop allows you to scan your photo, almost pixel by pixel, and tells you the values of R, G, and B whereever your cursor is on the photo. If it is in b&w, it will give you a pixel by pixel grayscale rating -- degree of black or white.

I'm just getting into the program, but it looks as though it will be very useful.

Another thing it will do (I'm told) is let you take photos apart and do something like cut and paste different parts. For instance, I'm finishing a portrait of a woman who had her photo taken 10 years ago in Australia. She is holding a koala bear. But since then, she has had her hair completely re-styled, and she's lost weight. So, we took new photos, and I put the old koala bear in the arms of the "new woman." If I had known how to use Photoshop, I could have done it all onscreen, and then printed it out. As it was, I had to do my own cutting and pasting.

[Richard Budig]

Marvin:

Thanks for your insight to the color behind the colors in black and raw umber.

Is there a book, or books, that I can buy that will give me this kind of basic information?

You'd be surprised (well, probably not) at the number of artists to whom I have posed questions of this sort who simply could not answer, except with vague references to mixing complementaries.

I've been at this (mostly on my own) for a number of years, and I've always had a haunting feeling there was more to color than what I saw on my palette.

You're a good man, Charlie Brown! \

I have a nice ($) commission coming up. A couple more like that, and you may wake up one day and find this retired old fire horse looking back at you in one of your workshops. Let me warn you, I ask a lot of questionss.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Thanks Richard. I wish there was such a book. The problem is, as I see it, that most authors, as well as teachers, don't really search for the answers but merely repeat rhetoric. It is my contention that most good artists are successful in spite of and not because of their training.

My goal is to understand how things work and why. True knowledge is what turns me on and it seems to get my students pretty darn excited as well. It would be a pleasure to give answering whatever questions you come up with a shot.

[Rob Sullivan]

I'm a little surprised at the lack of gratitude towards Marvin in his bringing to bear the subject of dispensing with cadmiums. I don't mean in regard to the improvement of your flesh tones - I mean the improvement in your bank account! Cadmium paints are notoriously expensive compared to earth colors - think of the savings!

Why, you'll be able to send yourself to - mmmaybe - a Mattelson workshop!!!

All kidding aside, from every arguable point of view, be it historically-based (as it is) or no, the Paxton palette makes the most sense. The amount of overmixing I've done in order to tweak the chroma out of cadmium colors has been enough to give my right forearm a "Popeye" look.

I know it seems so unlike me, Marvin, to cop so quickly to something you've suggested. Perhaps I'm not as stubborn as I was when I was a student. Could it be that having 2 kids has worn down my stoicism?

Be well, and keep that Flake White off your toast!