Glazing, try and try again

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Scott and Allen,

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. I do understand that this painting is rather flat, but that's because I'm planning on deeping or enhancing my middle tones with rich colors for shadows. My first attempt (that I mentioned above) before Christmas was not so flat, but I achieved that by using darker darks for the shadows. My problem was then that when I glazed, it got TOO dark. I am trying to build up that darkness with glazes, as I understood this was the method from reading previous posts about underpainting on this forum.

You can see my previous attempt on an earlier post:

http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...+underpainting

So, I have arrived at the solution to paint my underpainting using light and middle tones becuase the darker tones get too dark. You can understand my confusion, am I missing something?

Joan

[Scott Bartner]

Dear Joan:

I guess the question is, how close do you want to follow your reference photo? If you decide to lighten up the whole head, then there still should be a correct relative tonal relationship at this stage.

The tonal integrity of the underpainting should be your first priority before you even think about glazing. Glazing should be seen as a way of adding color, as opposed to a solution for achieving plasticity.

My advice to you is to spend as much time as possible getting the value relationships correct on the underpainting. When you finally have the feeling you can almost put your hands around the form, then you can begin to add color.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Dear Scott,

I agree with you that I cannot go by exactly what the photo tells me becuase half her face is too dark. So I am trying to keep the entire face in the 'light' values, with the shadows being the darkest 'light' value. I'm afriad to go any darker for fear of it looking too dark once I add glazes, which was the problem with my underpainting at Chrimstmas. Are you saying my darks on the face should be darker?

I don not plan on doing any modeling with glazes, just darking my shadows.

I'm not sure what you mean by '"achieveing plasticity"? Does it seem I am trying to achieve plasticity? If she looks plastic to you, I certainly would like to know.


[QUOTE=Scott Bartner]Glazing should be seen as a way of adding color, as opposed to a solution for achieving plasticity. [/QUOTEPerhaps with this reference photo a successful underpainting can't be done without the face appearing too flat. I don't have enough experience to 'make up' what is hidden by the shadows. It's a shame since this is such a cute girl and pose.

Thank you,

Joan

[Scott Bartner]

Is it possible to lighten up your reference photo to see what

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Thank you, I think now I have a plan. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out with this. I am finding this method frustrating because I don't think I can go back and change a little here or there to get a likeness once I am past the underpainting stages. I may be wrong about this, but that is how it seems to me. That's why I get so nervous about moving on to the next step.

Scott, again, thank you.

Joan

[Leslie Bohoss]

Hi ,

Perhaps helps you if you make a print of your photo but about 20-25 % brighter than original, in Paint Shop Pro (or equivalent). Less contrast and using the "Colorisation" function (I took Hue=25 and Saturation=107). Now you get a "milky" or foggy picture and having "room or space" to go darker (glazes) or brighter with opaque flesh tints.

I also think that is difficult to change the forms after the first glazes.. Hope you're not angry 'cause manipulating... You can even see the reflected light on the shadow side. If you get problems to alter your photo send me and I send back per mail.

Cheers.

PS. Michael Georges works with underpainting, too. Verdaccio.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Leslie,

Thank you for your reply, I think you have a very good idea. I will try and lighten the photo in the photo program I have, I have one that came with this computer. I may need to buy Photoshop since I hear a lot about that program on this forum.

I am not angry at all that you manipulated the photo, I am the opposite, I'm glad you did so you could show me your idea.

If I hold the photo up to a light, I can actually see a lot more tones. For example, I can see the reflected light on her cheeck and that is in my underpainting, though I don't know if you can see those subtleties in the post.

Thank you again,

Joan

P.S. Wo in Deutschland wohnen Sie?