Pastels - out of business?

[Mary Sparrow]

You do have a point Beth. It does tend to cost more to frame the pastels and I also agree that it is very hard to compare them. My goal is to feel good about both mediums and eventually have them basically, if not exactly, equal in price and let the look and quality of the work dictate what the client decides to have done. I have never been the most self confident person when it comes to painting and part of me felt like I had to charge less with the pastels, just simply because most other people do the same. It didn't take long for me to realize just as much work went into them, and frankly they have been a lot more expensive than the oils to do!

Mike, I don't know that I have ever seen a pastel you have done! Why not do like Chris, and as Beth as suggested and charge the same.

Since I have only been doing these pastels just a little over a year, when I am asked why they are so much less than the oils, I just say to think of it as my "introductory" price. That before too long I will raise the prices. They seem to buy it and think they are getting a big deal

[Morris Darby]

Mike, I am glad you posted this. In my mind I play this scenario over and over. First, I bought a nice set of portrait pastels (many shades of brown, pinks, greys, etc.) Then the backgrounds got more complicated as I offered more choices, so I had to buy more colors-AND THE COLORS NEVER END. I can mix colors with oils and use only eight max on my pallet, but very rarely can mix colors with pastels.

Now, I feel I still have an incomplete set of pastels...have spent more on them than all my other supplies put together and get maybe two pastel commissions a year.

Also, the host of the life-drawing group I go to cringes when I walk in with pastels because of the dust.

Hmm...

[Julie Deane]

Hi Mary -

After reading these posts and others, I have been feeling silly for offering pastels at essentially half-price of oils. But I did that only after researching going rates on many portrait artists' websites.

I wasn't even going to do pastels, but a potential customer wanted more than a charcoal drawing, but less money involved than an oil would have required. Who am I to turn down a commission at this point? Apparently, I am able to do pastels without too much struggling with the medium, so why not do it and at least get some commissions I might not otherwise get?

I, too, have put down "special introductory rates" on my advertising flyer, with a deadline for the end of this year. That way, there is a time limit for the current pricing and pastels can always be re-priced, depending on demand.

[Mike McCarty]

Now, I feel I still have an incomplete set of pastels...have spent more on them than all my other supplies put together and get maybe two pastel commissions a year.

I hear ya Morris.

Beth you wrote:

Mike if you like them why don't you just equal out your prices, thus it will dictate if you do them for something other than making more money?

Beth, would you mind coming at me one more time with this?

Mary you wrote:

Mike, I don't know that I have ever seen a pastel you have done! Why not do like Chris, and as Beth as suggested and charge the same.

Up at the top I wrote:

[QUOTE]* I thought the answer might be to raise my prices equal to oil. What that causes for me is more anxiety. If my price for pastel is the same as oil then I feel that I should be able to produce an equally quality product. Without the constant practice I don

[Mary Sparrow]

Mike,

Ok, I undertsand, and sorry for asking a question you already answered. I understand feeling like you are better in one than in the other. I feel like my pastels are better than my oils and why people still hire me and pay more for something I think isn't is good is beyond me.
Maybe it isn't as obvious to untrained eyes as it is to just the average person, but it is blatant to me and I want to be proficient at both..there again, it takes practice, and practice takes time and time is something I have very little of these days. SO, I getchya.

Oh, and thanks for posting those, my memory has now been jogged. And really, do any of the portraits we see on this forum look the same as in person? I know none of mine do.

Julie, like you, I feel like why turn down ANY opportunities for commissions at this point in my life? But still, it bothers me that my time isn't compensated the same.

[Mike McCarty]

I agree that it's a good idea to offer a less expensive alternative to oil. To this end I think the monochromatic drawings serve this purpose well. To me they seem to be a more reasonable match of effort to price.

I started by creating a pricing matrix that encompassed every medium possibility within each and every canvas size. My thinking has evolved to a much simpler statement. It always comes down to a personal negotiation anyway IE: size of canvas depending on composition, this hand in, that Spaniel out. So why not just have a broad pricing guideline which leads you into these negotiations, instead of some hard wired grid which may only serve to limit your own ability to be flexible.

When you are perceived as one who easily moves away from your own hard written guidelines, then the other side senses that everything is up for negotiation.

[Lara Cannon]

Hi all,

This discussion caught my eye because I am in the middle of completing a full color pastel. I am going to play devil's advocate here. I do see the logic in charging less for a pastel portrait. Here are some of my thoughts on why:

1) An oil painting costs more to create. The panel, the primer, brushes, oils, solvents, mediums, etc. are all very costly materials. A drawing can be done on a $10 piece of paper with a $100 set of pastels and a bridge. (easy!)

2) I like to take a break from working with the toxic oil painting materials. I get nervous about the constant exposure to lead, cadmiums, mercury & the fumes from the solvents. I think of a pastel portrait as less detrimental to my health.

3) I don't have to spend days preparing the canvas. I can get a pastel paper ready for drawing within an hour. If it is a disaster...an hour later I am ready to try again.

4) When you pay for an oil painting you are getting a far more permanent portrait. As much as I love pastels and the look of them they are not going to last like an oil painting. The Toulouse- Lautrec & Degas pastels I saw in Paris were all kept behind glass, in climate controlled rooms, with the lights carefully dimmed. They were working very hard to slow their decay, not many people are going to have a protections like that in their home.

4) I find offering a less expensive alternative to oil paintings keeps me busy!!

Lara Cannon

[Lacey Lewis]

First of all, let me say I could be wrong! But the following is my understanding:

Although you are avoiding fumes from solvents from painting with pastels, you are still being exposed to the cadnium, etc. Pastels use the same pigments (generally) as oil paints. In oil paints, the pigments are suspended in a medium and thus trapped, while the pigments in pastels are free to travel about and not only land on your skin but also can be inhaled. So in that sense, it is possible that pastels can be more harmful to your health.

I believe that pastels are, technically, more archival than oil paints. I think the difference comes in where the support is concerned. Paper will break down before canvas, etc. But the pastel itself should supposedly never break down as it is pure pigment and has no vehicle, resins, oils, etc to age, yellow, decompose over time. Of course temperature and humidity and other conditions come into play but this is true to a certain extent with oils as well.

Can anyone confirm or deny the above? I'd be interested to know.

Also, I am not saying this does or does not affect the relative prices of oils and pastels.

[Lara Cannon]

Hi Lacey,

Your comment on the materials in pastels caught me by surprise. I did some quick searches on-line. I use Sennelier Soft Pastels which according to their label & website are non-toxic. I also use Faber-Castell Pitt Pastel Pencils & Generals charcoal pencils. I checked them both and I couldn't find any health label warnings on them.

There are several other quality brands I found on-line that are advertised as non-toxic. The Schmincke Soft Pastels contain ingredients that are toxic or hazardous, but the label says they can be used safely with appropriate caution.

My general understanding of the archival quality of pastels is that the colors are sensitive to light and should never be in direct sunlight. The paper itself is the deteriorating factor. Of course, I have seen drawings by Leonardo da Vinci (behind glass & dimly lit) that are still here to be admired. Perhaps I should have said that pastel portraits require more special handeling to maintain their original beauty.