So when is a student ready to be a teacher?

[Steven Sweeney]

When the teacher is ready, the student will appear.


Beth, your post raises enough issues to "fund" this thread for a long time.

One of the most significant comments that you make is also one that I think can be put to best practical use. You indicated that even when you want to offer comments or critiques, even when the urge is nearly overwhelming, you know that you might have to spend an hour on it, and you just don't happen to have that time available. Now on the other end of that "exchange" is a person who signs on and doesn't see any critiques. What is that person to think? How very unfortunate it would be if he or she were to simply assume that everyone was stunned into silence by the sheer temerity of the artist to post such a dreadful thing. And while both of those actors are creating these "personal realities" through their thinking, the original image is still sitting there, just as it is, waiting patiently, filing its nails, oblivious to all those storylines being strung out.

In the same light, whether or not someone takes your advice is irrelevant to its value. (Otherwise, most world religions would collapse overnight, since most people don't take their "advice," either!) More important than whether someone alters his or her painting or drawing to accord with your comments and perceptions is whether someone (it could be the artist whose work you're considering, or it could be any of the 58 or 93 or 229 people we know only as "Views") found some useful nugget that they could take away and add to their own toolbox or cache of wisdom to be called upon in its own time.

The student has an obligation as well to train in being thoughtful and discriminating, to very consciously avoid being one of those "blind following the blind." An unhelpful critique is itself instructive -- if one takes the time to articulate why the advice, however well-intentioned, isn't apt in a particular piece. Getting it right the first time is, in a sense, of far less instructive value than getting it "wrong," discerning how you went astray, and fixing it. I guess my intent here is to say that the teacher-student relationship imposes obligations on both parties, and you -- as the teacher -- don't need to worry quite so much about whether your contribution is gold rather than bronze or, forbid, pyrite. You're offering guidance, not CPR, and you don't bear the burden of saving (or pleasing) everyone.

One dynamic that is evident on this and other forums is that those who give critiques tend to get them. Gratitude for being part of this community is revealed as much by what one gives back as by what one has received. And let's face it, it's just human nature to want to find that hour for someone who has found one or two for you or for others. Maybe it's a kind of quid pro quo, but maybe it's just because, as you've stated, time is limited and you want it to be well spent. To the sigh-ing resignation that there just isn't time to do critiques, or to teach, it's just a slight turn to a different perspective, that writing critiques and teaching expands the time you have. It makes your life larger.

The twist on the old phrase that I used for the heading here -- "When the teacher is ready, the student will appear" -- came to me on the drive to work this morning, and it is the crux of my long-winded comments. You've done your homework. You have a much-respected portfolio. You know more about this stuff than the majority of members and nonmembers who read this Forum every day. If you can refrain from telling yourself, "I'm not good enough yet to offer any useful advice," or "I don't have time for this," or "Nobody wants to hear what I have to say," then you might be surprised to discover that your students have been waiting for you, and they're ready to get to work. You won't always know who those students are until after you begin the instruction. Perhaps years after.

I didn't have "time" to write this post, but my day already feels larger for having done so. That's the way it works.

[Mark Youd]

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[Mischa Milosevic]

I second that wholeheartedly. My personal experience is what it is but I have learned so much from individuals on this forum by just listening to their comments and struggles and what procedures they took to solve these personal issues. I am sure that many would love to give back more than they have received and when ready it will happen and as you say

[Elizabeth Schott]

I don't want to stop the flow of thoughts, so I am not adding conclusions yet.

Just a disclaimer in case some one is reading a confused, I didn't want you to take this as just "about me personally", but about all forum members in general.

Also by teacher, I meant offering advise, not workshop etc.

[Steven Sweeney]

Well, perhaps I misunderstood your intended focus, Beth, since you began with a reference to your own "apprehension about [your] ability to critique others."

If you're asking instead why other Forum members might be disinclined to offer critiques, I of course don't know. I'm not sure why that would be important to know. I mean, if there were a resounding response, "We don't want to!" or "We're afraid to!" then I guess you'd know, but we'd still be spinning around on square one, waiting for someone to have a look at our drawings or paintings.

(We could try the ploy, "I'll pay you!", and in fact that's something that some Forums appear to be experimenting with. But that's for another time, in another thread.)

Perhaps they share your apprehension. I do. I haven't been doing this "art thing" very long, I don't do much of it, I know what my weaknesses are, and there probably isn't a more neurotically shy or less of a "public person" than me on this Forum. (Don't confuse a willingness to perform on the Internet with confidence or talent.)

That all boils down to "So what?" Being apprehensive is self-imposed. It can be a struggle, but you might have to stop and turn around right in fear's face and say, "Hey! Yeah, talkin' to YOU! Quit following me around, I've got things to do. Make yourself useful. Pour some coffee. Tell me your story."

My suggestion, Beth, is to go on down to the Critiques area, find one of those posted images that invites you to say something about it, and say it. If you hemorrhage words like I do, it might take an hour, but plenty of good advice has been dispensed on the Forum in 10-minute increments.

Just sign on and say it. That, in a nutshell, is the story behind every single one of those critiques.

[Jeff Fuchs]

I've been watching instructional videos by artists I admire... Scott Burdick, Morgan Weistling, Burton Silverman, and David Leffel.

The one thing that I've learned is that nobody is "right" about art. It seems that if these four artists got together to discuss how to paint a picture, a fight would surely break out, and it wouldn't be pretty. The sage advice on one video is completely negated on the next. Still, there's no denying they all know what they're talking about. I totally enjoy seeing different approaches, and philosophies.

My point is: if you're creating successful paintings, your input is valuable to those of us who aren't. At the same time, I feel many of us whose skills are still a bit coarse may also have valuable advice to offer, since I feel I have a good understanding of many of the concepts that I don't yet have the skill to execute. I know it when I see it, but I can't do it myself (yet).

So Beth, you are a person who has recently had a lot of those "aha" moments, and whose progress indicates that you've got a good grasp of the concepts that some of us are still struggling with. As a new professional, you still remember going through the learning process, and may be better able to translate it. (I've come to the conclusion that painting is easy, but learning to paint is very difficult).

[Rob Sullivan]

I'm not embarrassed to say that I love teaching art. Were my career as a painter to suddenly (please) go off the charts, I would make time to teach. It's an integral part of the process. Continuing Ed or BFA, I enjoy them equally, though not always for the same reasons.

A forum, however, is different. If I have a class, and a student shows me a piece that makes me cringe in horror, and then asks me for a critique of that piece, I must grit my teeth and go in as honestly and as deftly as possible. It takes a while to get this combination just right. Of course, it is my job to do this. But, if I open a forum thread and see something truly horrific, I will choose not to even try, for 2 reasons:

1- Communicating on the web is so very different than reality that it is very easy for things to be taken the wrong way, out of context, etc. If a work is especially bad, the odds are stacked that things will go awry. 2 - Resultant of this, it is best not to try, and therefore makes my life and the poster's life easier. For if the poster is ignored , they will get the message much more clearly than if any wordsmith were to comment with sage advice. And that message would be, "You need much more experience with basic stuff before posting, but I think you already know that."

[Michele Rushworth]

For if the poster is ignored , they will get the message much more clearly than if any wordsmith were to comment with sage advice. And that message would be, "You need much more experience with basic stuff before posting, but I think you already know that."

Of course, a lack of response might simply mean people were busy, or some other new work got stacked up on top of it on the Forum index and it just got buried.

I've found many great paintings I somehow managed to overlook on the Forum that I finally stumbled on and commented about months later. I'm sure there are some out there that I have never seen, even though I'm on this site on average once a day or more.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Steven,

I didn't have "time" to write this post, but my day already feels larger for having done so. That's the way it works.

This is a big day for you, because you haven't misunderstood me on either of your post - HA! I got the yin and the yang out of you today.

I was talking about my own apprehension, but figured I couldn't be the only one that felt that way, so I wanted to de-personalize it so others might say how they feel too!

I love how you write by-the-way! Sorry to make you do so much of it today!

I can't wait to come back and read these tonight!