Composition - examples of note

[Carlos Ygoa]

It is easier to compose with odd-number elements since this lends itself better to a classical compositon scheme, i. e. central element as focal point and main protagonist balanced laterally by an equal number of elements.
It is very difficult to have a successful compositon with 2 elements, both of which are supposed to have equal protagonism. There are, of course, and have been exceptions wherein the compositions have worked out (Hans Holbein the Younger and his "Two Ambassadors" comes to mind).
I agree that the arm of the boy in the de Laszlo piece plays an important role; the spherical elements also fulfill their role; the shadows on the side serve to anchor the 2 figures to the base of the painting and almost give the whole thing a pyramidal compositional scheme, (perhaps because of this I personally find the painting a bit bottom heavy, but that

[Molly Sherrick Phifer]

It's hard to believe, but both children in the painting are boys. Laszlo painted numerous paintings of his young sons with long curls. There is even a portrait of his son, Steven, with a bow in his hair. Apparently, it was not uncommon to keep boys' hair long or even dress them in robes and lace, particularly for portraits. I have a photo of my late father in law dressed in a tiny gown sitting (pretty as a pearl) among his older brothers. Go figure.

Here is a link to the painting information.

If you poke around on the website that link points to, (jssgallery.org), you'll find lots of Laszlo portraits. Mainly royalty, but also some family and friends. I find them refreshingly uncomplicated.

Great thread!

[Mike McCarty]

Carol,

At least you've figured out whats important. It's a difficult subject to tackle, because just when you think you've got a handle on a set rules someone comes along and breaks them with a resounding success. Maybe we could get something started here and between the bunch of us learn something new. I started this not to tell what I know (which was built on a solid foundation of ignorance) but to shake loose what others may teach me. It's a difficult and important subject.

Claudemir,

Thanks for those examples. It seems to me that when you bring many other elements (shapes) into the scene it then looses the element of being a two person composition. Each person being just one more shape within the overall composition. It's when things tighten up that it gets more challenging.

Allan,

I had the same feeling about our left side of the painting needing to be wider, but then I look at the position of the heads and bodies in relation to the canvas and I begin to wonder. I thought that the bowl was the weakest part of the composition, then I thought that maybe he thought he had to include it to complete the narrative of the bubbles. I just don't know. I never had any negative feelings regarding the boys dark shirt.

Those are some interesting brush strokes in that self portrait.

Sorry, but the original Laszlo image creeps me out.

An off-the-shoulder, below the breast presentation of a 10-year-old, next to her brother or friend, is extremely creepy. Nothing artistic about it. Composition doesn't offer any salvation.

Next slide, please.

Steven,

I never considered the inappropriateness of it. Who knows what was on this guys mind a hundred years ago. I can see where it would probably push some buttons in some circles.

Carlos,

Thank you for those excellent points. How much of the success of your painting example do you contribute to the negative space?

Molly,

Thanks for that info. I have a photo of my father at about one or two in a dress. He is holding an apple with a big bite out of it.

[Mike McCarty]

Here's another of that same Laszlo son Paul Leonardo. It's possible he didn't end up on the rugby team.

[Michele Rushworth]

what can I include to bring it to three?

This seems to be the key. Good idea, and something I will try to think about next time I have a double portrait to compose.

[Carlos Ygoa]

Mike,
The austerity of the background in the Murillo piece (more like "vacuum") serves to rivet the attention on the two women; the whole composition would have been weaker (I think) if the artist had included secondary elements in the background. Which does not mean in any way that background or negative space is the third element--I am of the opinion that an element in a painting has to be a "positive", actual element.
Degas introduced a third element in his painting below, the table in the foreground, but the painting remains a 2-figure composition. His background is also austere and we are focused on the 2 women. It is quite easy to include a 3rd element (not 3rd "figure") to make the painting coalesce, the challenge is when we limit ourselves to the austerity of 2 figures and still pull off something powerful.


Not sure if I got my point across...

[Carlos Ygoa]

Could have sworn I attached the image in my previous post. Here it is again, I hope.

[Mike McCarty]

Which does not mean in any way that background or negative space is the third element--I am of the opinion that an element in a painting has to be a "positive", actual element.

Carlos,

I'm not sure I understand your meaning completely. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics. If we are studying the relationship of shapes and masses isn't one shape just as good as another? Are you distinguishing the term element from shape or mass? If you believe, as you stated, that your first example would be much weaker without the vacuum/shape to the right, then can't we accept it as a compositional element?

I agree that when the "elements" are reduced to the absolute minimum this is when we are put to the test.

Similar to your example Carlos, a more contemporary painting by Carol Katchen.

[Carol Norton]

Originally Posted by Mike McCarty

Carol

At least you've figured out whats important. It's a difficult subject to tackle, because just when you think you've got a handle on a set rules someone comes along and breaks them with a resounding success.

Hey Mike, I'm still LEARNING "The Rules" Gotta know them before you can break them ....successfully.